This is scary stuff, Thanks David for sharing. I have been to a Landmark seminar and was disturbed for weeks afterwards. I wish I would have had this then.

I just can't seem to put together, “Self-help” and Pay me to tell you what to do?

To Me Self-help is just that. Taking responsibility for your life. And the changes you are ready, or not ready to make for yourself.

Mary, you are welcome, I hope others will find it and it will help them better understand what is going on around them.

Me You, I think that there is a difference between learning a skill and paying to be told to be just like me and that the person you are paying has the only way and the only salvation and the only way to ever get it all is to pay more. Learning new skills is a key to growing and practicing self help the way you describe it.

Dave, you will like this. The Transformational Leadership Council has removed James Ray completely. People should be reminded that he was a founding member

http://www.transformationalleadershipcouncil.com/

Whatever the religious or political persuasion, people have to discipline themselves to think for themselves, and to question what their told. And raise their children to do the same.

I think the key is what the real intent of the group is. In other words, is it a marketing company that needs to do something with the people once they get there? Is one of the premises that you must 'recruit' or 'replace yourself” with someone else or you are made wrong? I was involved in the beginning stages of some of the biggest organizations from the 70's. I know the people who started them. They were marketers first, not teachers. Teachers were a dime a dozen. The machine behind it was high-level marketing techniques.

Thanks for sharing this. I have been studying and practicing “Law of Attraction” principles for about 5 years now. My mantra ( which I have shared with others) is ” Don't drink the Koolaid”.

The irony here, is that, at the heart of these teachings is personal responsibility. Healthy skepticism and intellectual questioning is the hallmark of New Thought teachings, and characterizes most ( but not all) of the people I've met.

What happened to the people at James Ray's retreat is tragic, and I'm sure that his ego and a surrender of personal authority pervaded the event. That's how his groups work ( I know, 'cuz I went to one). However, it would be wrong to dismiss the priciples because of personalities.

In the end, you and you alone are responsible for what you believe, and how you behave.

Interesting the two largest cults on the planet are the christains and muslims, who throughout history have killed millions because they did not belong to their cult or broke the rules.

American Indians sat in sweat huts. What presentage of people died doing this vs. those who did not?

Our only problem is that we are human, we love to complain and make others wrong.

I feel really sorry for people who are sucked into these self help guru teachings because what may sound good is really unproven methods. I was once involved with a cult long time ago but once they wanted me to pledge over my money I quit. I was lucky enough to get out of the control they had over many others. As I look back on these cults most of the time people are so wrapped up in their negativity that they want a way out of it. I am into Centerpointe and I am very happy with the results. I have read one of James Ray's books and thought he had a brainwashing technique that was effective even in the way he wrote his books which I found to be very boring I never even finished that one book. he praised the Secret which I found to be a lot of B.S., even Bill Harris who developed Centerpointe said it was and I agreed with him. Thank you Dave and Mike this was very interesting and extremely helpful because I am no different from the next person being sucked into these self-help guru teachings. Everyone wants the easy way out and they all want to feel good about themselves. I highly recommend centerpointe for someone looking to end the cycle of self-destruction that we are experiencing. Please comment this if you think that I am doing something wrong here.

I feel really sorry for people who are sucked into these self help guru teachings because what may sound good is really unproven methods. I was once involved with a cult long time ago but once they wanted me to pledge over my money I quit. I was lucky enough to get out of the control they had over many others. As I look back on these cults most of the time people are so wrapped up in their negativity that they want a way out of it. I am into Centerpointe and I am very happy with the results. I have read one of James Ray's books and thought he had a brainwashing technique that was effective even in the way he wrote his books which I found to be very boring I never even finished that one book. he praised the Secret which I found to be a lot of B.S., even Bill Harris who developed Centerpointe said it was and I agreed with him. Thank you Dave and Mike this was very interesting and extremely helpful because I am no different from the next person being sucked into these self-help guru teachings. Everyone wants the easy way out and they all want to feel good about themselves. I highly recommend centerpointe for someone looking to end the cycle of self-destruction that we are experiencing. Please comment this if you think that I am doing something wrong here.

Excellent the psychology really needs to be understood. Thank you for sharing. I do believe that there is something in the latest science that is related to the laws of attraction and Intention, however our understanding of these, so called laws is it a threshold level. We are still in the borderlands of this new science. I do not believe though that there is any one person out there today that has cracked the code. There are many good intentioned souls that believe they have and more that prey on peoples spiritual starvation brought about by todays way of living. These people are most concerned in making money and the only faith they follow is capitalism. I agree that the only protection from being seduced into the magic is to keep an open mind and to keep asking questions. Once the questioning stops you are heading into the realm of an assumptive reality.

I'm a fan of Centerpointe as well. And I think Bill Harris took exception with some of the ways that “The Law of Attraction” was being taught and misunderstood, but I think it is an exaggeration to say that Bill Harris called it B.S. I watched that video, too, and this was not his message. If nothing else, he is a respectful man.

Hello All:
After reading your opinion and listening to the Dave Lakhani MP3, I wholeheartedly endorse everyone to become more informed, especially on issues that directly affect their immediate welfare. It seems to me that James Ray (of whom I know of but am not moved to become involved in with what he has to offer) is being targeted because three individuals who died in a “sweat”—-tragic of course. Whether James Ray or any of the Tranformational leadership 'qualify' as “cult” leaders is for each and everyone of us to figure out.

However, Michael looking to the scary scenario that is occuring in the USA relative to the cult of modern politics, agribusiness, Washington Lobbyist, FDA, Big Pharma , the Military Industrial Complex and the stifled Media, and the shredding of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, under the “terrorists” threat, I certainly hope you are as informed in these areas as you are about “cult personalities”. The enormity of what is occurring TO the USA needs to be blogged and discussed. Why don't we start with “Why don't we allow HR1207 to occur so the criminal bankers who control the PRIVATE Federal reserve can be audited so that the 23.7 $$$TRILLION that was taken from the US taxpayers can be discovered as to where it disappeared to?????

Sad. I saw here a slam on capitalism, which is the freedom to prosper and experience no limits to how successful you can potentially be, and I saw Christianity and Islam lumped together as vicious killers of millions, even though they are in no way similar and are diametrically opposed to each other. I guess some people want to take advantage of any forum to promote their own form of political brainwashing.

But what we are supposed to be focusing on is the cult of personality, something that has taken our country over in the most terrible way right now. It happens when “gurus” like Ray come along, exploit an ability that we all have, even if we aren't aware of it, and try to make money by convincing us that only they have the answers. They try t0 explain a phenomenon that can't be explained with words, leaving followers still longing, still hoping, and ripped off.

If you accept the premise that everything you need to succeed in life is already inside of you, and if you understand that no human being is any wiser than you, then you can be free to read, expand, grow, and become all that you can be.

I guess some people don't mind paying someone to tell or remind them of that. I think you are better off putting that money into your cookie jar ever single time you are tempted to attend one of those seminars, instead, and take a nice vacation somewhere.

I will never forget the time I witnessed a prematurely graying guru at Harbin Hot Springs, California, during my one and only visit there, in a pool of hot water, surrounded by all kinds of naked people, a young woman demonstrating trust by lying limp in his arms as he swished her back and forth in the warm water, followers agog as he spoke his words of wisdom. Having grown up in Oklahoma where the most liberal thing was common sense, all I could see was a snake oil salesman on a vacation funded by a gullible crowd of clueless young people getting paid to hold a naked girl in his arms. Personally, I work far too hard for my money to want to share it with someone like him, or a James Ray, or many political candidates who claim to have the answers when all they really want is the huge paycheck, the amazing power, and the golden fleece health plan.

It's everywhere. Everywhere. Beware.

Dave,
I totally agree about James Ray. And thanks a lot for helping understand what's happening in these days. Anyway, as LezL pointed out, I think it would be unfair to dismiss the basic principles of the Law of Attraction because there are some crooks around. Abraham-Hicks. Louise Hay and so on for instance are by no means comparable to this kind of cults etc…

I agree, Dr. Hakes! You are so right-on! And people are being lulled to ignore this through the cult of personality. We now have a likeable leader, right? So we should focus on how much we like him – even more, how much the world likes him. So that should make us want to ignore those incovenient little details you discussed, right? WRONG!

Think “Razzle Dazzle” from the show/movie “'Chicago.” That's what it's all about. Razzle dazzlem and you can get away with anything.

Refreshing to hear it from someone besides me!

[...] can hear the interview here:   http://exploringthemind.com/how-to-protect-yourself-from-coercive-groups-and-leaders/ Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)The Lakota Tribe’s Lawsuit Over the Sweat [...]

I guess it is awesome to be 50 or 65 people in a sweat lodge Melting all together in this big sweat party.. How did mud exchange the high cielings of the church?! In the midst of this hectic life, with so much stress around, so much fear, people might be looking for a saviour, for a miracle that will transform them beyond, transport them beyond… it happens not only in Arizona The food of these crowded events is a promise of freedom, and an exhilerating adrenaline filled experience (maybe even with a taste of shamanic tea), that have one feel greater than life. That is a hard act to follow, I mean with logic and lectures.
Capitalistic as you may be, when dealing with souls of other people and the essence of the divine, how can you say you hold god by the horns, and charge 9000 $ for a seat? This is not Capitalism, to me this is Cynicism, bitterness and disbelief. The masters that brought Joy gave it for free… your challange was to practice.
Speaking Capitalism, I wish for all involved that insurance is there. Speaking the wind, I sincerely wish James' friends will not only take him off the list, but also be honest each with him/herself as to their acts. Taking on the role of a teacher can be very heavy and tempting. May we all be at ease, and know our goodness by the whisper of the breath coming in and out, and the beat of our heart in our chest.

Hi Dr. Hakes, I agree with you that there are bigger problems out there! I have no expertise in these areas although it would be interesting to interview some.

Hi, There might be something to that science some day, but if you look at the research sources they are pretty shoddy. It takes a lot of time, but if you see what journals they are published in and get the back story, there really isn't any solid evidence on intention, etc…. The TM study about the Washington meditators, for example, is a sham. Same with the Dr. Emoto water study

I've developed such large Muscles from Body Building that I get no feelings in my hands.

Speaking for myself- I don't really care- whether the water experiment is true or not- it is nothing more than a curiosity- but what I have found is a whole group of people- bright, left-leaning, creative and original thinkers who are willing to ASK the QUESTIONS about existence, meaning, connection- and to try to live their lives in a more genuine and purposeful way. Many of them have been avowed Atheists their whole lives, others turned away from the religion of their early indoctrination and are surprised and a little self conscious about finding themselves in a community of other 'seekers'. As one member said- “We are becoming the people who used to annoy us”. Love that.

I have witnessed real growth, real change, and real connection from the motley crew that make up my spiritual community.

If you don't mind my saying, the rationalists faith in science is as intractable as any Bible belt Christian's is in their 'God'. It is just possible that faith is ahead of the science game, that intuition is as sound a path as science- and that when science catches up, we'll find they were on the same path all along.

Surround yourself with people who ask interesting questions.

Hi Michael, I would guess that main stream science journals are hard to get anything published in that does not conform to main stream science. Sadly both worlds are suffer from people with inflated ego's. Challenging what a professor professes to be true is very difficult as reputation, livelihood depends on others accepting the professors version of reality. I published and illustrated a book on 'directionality' for a friend, back in the late eighties. The universities would not even look at the book or test out its theories as there was a mention of beyond light speed and the second law of thermodynamics being flawed. Over recent years both of these concepts have now been questioned. Imagination and play are wonderful learning tools that are under valued in our technically obsessed society. Dr Emoto's study of water looks fascinating, where is science paper that shows this to be a sham? I have not seen the counter argument to the TM study either, however I do know the benefits of meditation, through personal experience. I am in full agreement with you on the exploitation of people in a vulnerable state. However to close our minds to all other than what the scientific community authenticates as being true, would be disastrous and leave us open to much exploitation. It appears that both sides of the coin has its own tricksters? As we can only achieve a construct of reality and that reality is confirmed by the consensus of our social, economic and spiritual peer groups, its paramount to be able to step outside of the box, else neuroses, psychosis and other disorders occur. A study of closed systems, reveals that they go into entropy and open systems given food for thought self organise. I have a scientific mind, but also see the wonder and magic in life. Is that not the greatest enigma that both worlds views are equally important? I would say that a biasing towards stepping out side of the box is conducive for our well being and development. Like you say, this takes responsibility, however the ability to respond comes from learning by the mistakes made whilst mapping the uncharted borderlands.

The greatest and most destructive cult of all time is consumerism. The gurus: The American advertising industry, and its constant EGO brainwashing, “You'll be MORE if you buy this
new car, bigger house, these designer clothes, this cosmetic. this vacation, etc. etc.” And of course, “you are an asshole if you don't get rich with OUR scheme.”

Read and STUDY Eckhart Tolle's “A New Earth.” -If your EGO will let you.

I understand what your message is but I have done many of the programs that you mention in your interveiw. I have gotten nothing but good things out of many of them. Some I enjoyed & some I didn't. I have changed my life so much & have become so much more confident in myself & my knowledge is at another level. I started off with Tony Robbins & went on to do many of the peoples programs that are part of the transformational change group. I see so many people today so afraid to try anything because someone tells them they shouldn't do it. Some people are so afraid of their own shadow. I would hate to see where my life would be today if I had not done all the programs I have done. I do think for myself & I believe that is important. I think you need to be careful in putting all these programs & transformational work in the same boat. I know there are cults that are bad but if you are going to talk about transformational work being bad & cultish then you need to include religion also. I am a big beleiver that everything everyone says is an opinion only & not fact, that goes for the so called proven scientific things you mention. Many things for many years were proven to be the truth for so many years only to be proven wrong many years later. I also believe that no one on this planet knows the whole truth. We all have our own stories about what the truth is but no one knows for sure. I no longer accept anything as fact but use my own thinking as everyone should. If we would all just take responsibility for everything in our own lives then maybe we will stop playing victim & blaming everyone for everything. We all make up our own minds to go to programs & we should take responsibility for what we get out of each program. I do appreciate your opinions & I did enjoy the interveiw. If I knew your e-mail I would love to discuss things further. I for one plan to continue my transformational expeirences as I have grown so much spiritually,emotionally,physically & creatively. Thank you again as I did enjoy your opinion but I recognize & respect all opinions even if I disagree.

Dave and Mike, I appreciate that you shared this interview with us. I had never heard of James Ray before the tragic events at his sweat lodge (perhaps I merely forgot his name) although I was familiar with the Secret. I have selectively followed the self help movement for many years with tremendous appreciation and success so it's not the movement's fault. It is only natural to think each idea through before applying it. The individual must make choices and sometimes we make the wrong one. We have all been suckered into something at some point in our lives and perhaps been lucky not to suffer serious consequences. James Ray seems to have very successfully sold his program to large groups of educated and financially comfortable clients ~ they couldn't have all been collectively stupid. I agree that these people were “seekers” and that can translate into modern “explorers”. Explorers entering new territory need to be more vigilent than usual as the risks are higher but that can be forgotten in the excitement of “growth promised”. As Mike pointed out, we must take precautions and think carefully before blindly accepting whatever we're told ~ although that holds true all the time really ~ whether you're buying a car or trying a new diet. The methods Ray used are typical of brainwashing and it was useful to examine them again. Developing a keen awareness of the sytematic structures these guys use to operate might save someone a lot of money; or maybe their life someday. Of course had any of these people lived in the desert they would have understood the basic principles of human biology relative to dehydration and never gone for this mad method of torture. A big problem is that so few people seem to have any basic common sense whatsoever and become easily blindsided. Hello Dr. Hake! We all can probably agree with you that there are certainly dozens and dozens of OTHER awful scenarios to consider that are occuring in the big, bad world but we're not discussing that now. Why not stay focused and stick to the subject and find another blog where you can rant about criminal bankers and Big Pharma. That was hardly the subject here and was entirely irrelevant to this discussion; let alone somewhat rude to suggest that Michael is “hopefully as informed in these areas” as well. Why? For your benefit? It's not necessary in this discussion. Thank you.

I don't think that all people who support others on their spiritual growth are creating CULTS – I believe we are too found of calling groups Cults and/or people Terriorists when we don't understand or are afraid of things.

“The Self-Help Movement has become the Self-Destruct Movement!”

I think your podcast with Dave is excellent and it triggers what I have felt for quite awhile about the self-help, industrial complex.

I believe t here was a time when the answers to life’s challenges were simple. We learned to make our own decisions based on common sense, family values and religion, and we learned good judgment from life experience and through the sound advice of family and friends.

Now, however, Self-Help gurus have brainwashed us into believing that they know what is best for us, our marriages and our families. These self-proclaimed experts make millions while offering up their generic advice without any solid evidence to support their claims.

The common sense once readily available to all of us has been hijacked. Self-Help has evolved into a “quasi-religious” cult following through the systematic commercialization of positive psychology and sound mental health.

The Self-Help Movement has become the Self-Destruct Movement by diminishing or destroying our ability to explore, interpret, assess, create, judge, choose and evolve on our own. We have given up the freedom to live life, and build healthy marriages and families based on our unique history, values and life experience. Instead many (desperately) search outside themselves for someone to tell them how to be happy, what they should value and how they should act.

Being a “happier person” or having a “healthier family,” whatever that means, are often the goals of consumers of Self-Help products. Yet studies continue to show that to be happy and healthy is simple but not necessarily easy. Few of us want to do the hard work necessary to change, so we keep searching for an easier way offered by the latest guru, sometimes with deadly consequences.

The Solution: A Return to our (Common) Senses! The best way out of this learned “self-helplessness” is to go cold turkey. Stop watching ALL Self-Help shows now, and quit reading any more Self-Help books, at least until you have applied what you read in the last one.

Begin, instead, to reclaim your natural, God-given ability to think for yourself. The common sense that was once readily available to all of us is still there free of charge and waiting to be applied to just about any challenge we might face in life… all you have to do is use it.

John Curtis, Ph.D. is the founder of Americans Against Self-Help Fraud – http://selfhelpfraud.com/

Thank you for this wonderful interview Michael and Dave, great job. You covered a LOT of valuable info.

Regarding any science behind intention, that's questionable, however the science behind the attraction of two or more like things is studied and proven down to the tiniest particle and energy waves. It's science. It's just a new catchy label to call it the “Law” of Attraction.

Dr. Hakes -

Persuasion and manipulation shows up everywhere. I think that the key for everyone is to learn how to be able to separate what is real from what is spin and what is outright manipulation. One of the biggest challenges when looking at politics for example is not just understanding how a cult of personality is being created, but looking closely at who is really creating the cult of personality, who is benefiting from the position or the policy. Special interests are some of the most coercive groups around today.

Jeff -

Thanks for the comments. There is one challenge with your point and that is the idea that everything is an opinion and not fact. That makes everything ok to ignore. For example, using your premise, the Holocost was ok because it might be proven sometime in the future that systematically attempting to eliminate a race was somehow appropriate. Or, that if we find out that aids doesn't spread exactly the way we believe it does somehow makes not using condoms sensible or ok. Science starts with skepticism and works forward from there.

I do agree with you that you should use your own thinking with the caveat that everyone should learn how to think, how to deconstruct arguments and how to pull themselves out of emotional decisions when they are thinking and look at the facts. That still leaves room for seeing the facts and challenging them or pushing beyond to see what is there, but more often than not, it sets you up to see a much more subjective truth.

I certainly don't have an issue with people doing transformational training if it works, but nearly nothing that can be taught for $15k in a hotel room over two days is going to transform you life. It may motivate you or it may give you some new ideas about what to do next but ultimately you'll have to do it and likely get more training along the way. That same $15k spent in real scientific process would often be better spent. And, I'd strongly argue that the same $15k spent traveling to another country and seeking out new experiences would be even more valuable yet. Because as you begin to experience the world around you, the other cultures, as you see how others live, you begin to better understand yourself and to see everything around you differently. And that to me is real transformation.

Lezl -

Thanks for the post, I'd like to see where Abraham Hicks or any of the others who first pushed the idea of law of attraction teaches personal responsibility. Most of the published works really sets the stage for people to victimize themselves for not being good enough, clear enough, or well thought enough.

I don't think that there is anyone who is a strong skeptic who agrees with new age theory or new thought. Skepticism requires subjective experience validated by real testing. Virtually none of the law of attraction material holds up under any scientific conditions.

However, like religion (which new age thought is simply a rebranding with new words) if it makes you happy and complete and it doesn't cause harm then while I may disagree, I don't mind that people practice it. The problem however is that I see it causing many more problems than it solves.

It would be great if you could expand on how you see what we discussed as a slam on capitalism. I'm a very committed capitalist and have been an entrepreneur my whole life. I'm not in the buyer beware camp though. If people do something that is patently wrong and are taking people's money, there is an obligation on the part of not only people but government to put proper controls in place.

Christianity and Islam diametrically opposed? I don't think you'll find any authentic religious scholar who would agree with that statement. And, without question, religion has been at the basis of more wars and death than just about any other cause in our history.

Ally -

I disagree slightly, Abraham-Hicks definitely seeks to create a cult like following. As does Ramtha and others who “channel” entities to create third party validation for their ideas and to make themselves seem above reproach because they are simply the channels and didn't pick the job. Apply the scientific method, have the prove even one thing accurate and they can win one million dollars to begin spreading their word in an even bigger way. The Randi foundation has had this challenge for years now and no one has won it yet.

There have been many rebuttals and retests of Emoto and many have been documented, none can replicate the results. Same with the TM study and prayer studies, in many cases, not only do the results not prove out, in some cases they go the other direction.

I agree that fundamentalism in any form is nearly always negative, but faith alone is very dangerous. Whether someone is an Atheist, agnostic, or true believer doesn't matter, what matters if if they seek the truth using the methods we know lead to real answers. Intuition as a precursor to science makes no sense if you describe it as having a connection to infinite knowledge that everyone has access to but only a few ever access. If intuition is described as following hunches and testing new hypothesis based on subconscious processing of information and understanding that your mind may be able to process more than you consciously process and then following those hunches with proper testing and validation, then intuition may play a role in the process but still isn't a precursor to science, only a precursor to scientific testing.

And yet that science has nothing to do with money, or bicycles or the love of your life. Quantum physics does not seek to study the relationship of those things at all. Quantum theory is the theoretical basis of modern physics that explains the nature and behavior of matter and energy on the atomic and subatomic level.

You are welcome!

Absolutely!

I don't think that we suggested all people do that. And, there are all kinds of names for the things that we don't want to think about including satan and the Universe.

John -

Nice thoughts, I'd take exception to only one sentence, our “God-given ability to think for ourselves.” I'm not sure there is conclusive evidence that God exists but there is plenty of evidence that biologically we have the capacity to think and reason and we should exercise it.

Oh my, you REALLY think Islam and Christianity are alike? I am not sure what actual religious scholar would compare them. Christianity is about life. Islam is about death. Christians seek to help others. Muslims seek to control others. Christians try to build strong family units. Muslims beat their wives, mutilate the genitals of their daughters, and will slaughter family members who dare attempt to leave the religion. Christians are free to chose whatever religion they wish. A Christian can become an aetheist and it's his/her own choice. Children of Christians are not beaten or killed for leaving the religion. In Islam, they can be and often are.

Muslims regard anyone outside their religion as unclean and beneath them, to be dominated, controlled, taxed, or destroyed. There is NO live and let live about it. Christians do not do this in any way, shape, or form. Christian principles formed the foundation of our country – basic to those principles are the beliefs in helping, giving, sharing, providing support, etc. The earliest forms of welfare in this country were from Christians giving to those who were poor, long before the government decided this was a great control mechanism.

Islam is hugely a brainwashing political ideology. It targets Jews and Christians, in particular, with little children reciting, on Arab TV, that Jews are monkeys and dogs. Islamic children are taught it is noble to die trying to kill others who do not believe as they do. This does not ever occur in Christianity.

Cults are a whole different story. Anyone from any religion can join any kind of cult, religious or otherwise. So that is not what I am talking about here.

The Christian Crusades were embarked upon in the effort to beat back a worldwide takeover by Islam. Sometime in the 1200s, the current pope noticed that Islam was taking over many parts of Europe and the call went out to defend Europe against the tide of Islam. It is politically incorrect to point this out. We are supposed to picture the Crusaders as wack-jobs who just went out in search of non-believers to kill them if they refused to believe. But that is so misleading! Terrible things happened during that time, but if they had not done this brave thing, we would have all been born under the star and crescent of Islam, one of the most intolerant ideologies of all time. So yes, there have been wars and death, and religion has played a role, but just like we had to fight the Brits and win our independence through bloodshed, Christianity had to fight back Islam, with bloodshed, in order to prevent it overtaking the entire world.

Another difference: Mark Steyn rightly pointed out that Islam lives off taxing infidels who live in their midst. They are not producers – they are takers. Christians, by and large, are very productive and create. They don't hitch themselves to someone else's back.

One more thing. Christians tolerate the desecration of their religious symbols as well as world-wide persecution. But if you say anything negative about Allah, you are targeted for DEATH.

So please. Please do NOT tell me that these religions are not diametrically opposed. They are. It is entirely possible to be a Christian and NOT be radical or dangerous or closed-minded. You cannot say the same about much of Islam. If “authentic” religious scholars (whatever you could possibly mean by that!) cannot see this, then they should go search again for their common sense and stop buying into the demonization of Christianity in order to make Muslims feel better. Muslim women suffer more than I even want to think about. Last summer I was on a boat ride with a Muslim family. There were several women, very young, with two middle-aged men and a whole huge group of children. The men never spoke to the women very much. It was apparent that these way-too-young women, dressed in long sleeves and long pants and covered heads on a 100+ degree NIGHT were primarily procreative vessels, not much more, to these men. They are forced into these roles. Sharia demands they be beaten into submission and they fear the men, who forcibly rape their wives if the wives are not feeling up to being inseminated at the moment. Procreation and sex are not a choice for Muslim women. Many are beaten, burned, battered, and killed. Many are not permitted any freedom at all. This is in NO way similar to the life of Christian women.

I really appreciate your warning about coercive leaders and groups, but if you are going to gloss over Islam and try to compare it to Christianity as if they are equal, then you have forever lost my respect and my interest.

As for capitalism, I was not referring to anything that you wrote. It was from a comment from one of your other readers.

American Indians came in all kinds of tribes. As an Arizonan, I have had to study Arizona history and learned that the Apaches were bloodthirsty, violent, and deeply opposed to white people moving into their territory. They skinned or burned people alive, showed no mercy toward women or children, and many Indian tribes took slaves after battling each other. Navajos, on the other hand, were peaceful and got along well with white people.

An archeologist friend who had been recently studying various areas in Arizona where Indians had been told me that Indians destroyed every single environment they inhabited. When they hunted buffalo, they would run whole herds over a cliff in order to skin and eat a few of them – the piles of bones still exist today. She also told me that there is evidence in excrement that natives also practiced cannibalism, though why she did not know

So do not believe that these people were the ideals we all need to follow. There was plenty of killing among the natives even before white people came here, and once they arrived, there was a lot of killing of whites.

As it always has been, it's all about survival.

And again, as my post above stated, Christians did not kill because people did not belong to their “cult.” They defended their right to not be swallowed up by Islam. I believe we will eventually see why they did that. Islam is swallowing up all kinds of countries right now. Multiculturalism and political correctness are perfect covers to enable them to do this without criticism – until it is way too late. France, Britain, Germany, and Spain are falling. I do not think they ever suffered under Christianity the way they are suffering under the onslaught of Islam.

First of all, is it not perhaps the most contracending approach in the world to say “Id like to start by congratulating you for “……” , or 'I'd like to acknowledge you” it's straight out of Tony Robbins book of put downs – I'm more important that you but gonna dress it up with stupid language. Please would people involved in personal development (which this cult bashing is by the way) refrain from it. Frankly it is twattish behaviour. I'd like to just take a moment to congratulate myself for saying that …

Secondly – Cults, as does religion (and personal development education like this interview) offer certainty for those who have none, now being on a rock floating in an infinite universe – not knowing what the heck is gonna happen when they die- you can't really blame people for wanting a bit of that – can you now. So some people go for a cross and heaven, others for 67 virgins at death, some for aliens and other worlds, some for white light fairies on Jupiter. Others hold on to 'facts' – it's all just an attempt at certainly dressed up in different clothes.

Facts do have a tendency to change over time, just look at the medical world for the last 200 years.

Now I'm a card carrying realist with no spiritual or religious or new age bones left in my body, and I did two cults when I was younger and then spent a few years openly challenging cult leaders on their stage with the end result being as you say 'open hostility' which meant to me that I had achieved my outcome. I highly recommend the past time, very enjoyable.

It's funny that you say that the mechanisms of success are already in place – work hard, learn, consistency etc (which I happen to agree with) but then you mention (different context I know) learn marketing, which if I'm not wrong is based on the manipulation of emotion to sell – can't get away from it can we.

But perhaps the most important question is where to cults come from and will they always exist?

They were born out of tribes – which have the same intrinsic set up so that certainly and survival were more probable and secondly they will always exist as you just have to go into a standard office and you will see the same mechanisms of a cult in place.

Leader, rules, punishment and shame for not toeing the party line, investment in group similarities and language styles. Importance of work over family and external social dynamics. Non transparancy, special knowledge gained the higher up the hierachy you go etc etc. Landmark and the gang just do a better job at it by having the gaul and knowing the game better, thats all. Humans are tribal and tribes are mini cults – and cults are mini tribes – they are here to stay and you are most likely, if not certainly in one…

Yep… we agree that we have the ability.

JC

oh i think you are abit full of crap. Like what im not into all these self help by going into the desert. But law of attraction is talked about from the highest leaders in the world. all im hearing from u guys is crap. how can u help people when all your talking about is limiting human beliefs.

Your answer is vague. That's what's wrong with the whole picture! Give specific truthful examples of what you just commented on with regards to the Lobbiests and that will be light for the blind instead of more vague generalizations. You sound fearful of being accused of lacking political correctness.

Not even close. I'm as far from being politically correct as anyone is. Pharma is a great example, they promote agendas through politicians whose campaigns they support in very big ways. The result is that the politicians in order to continue to receive the financial support agree to ideas that may not be in the best interest of the public.

I understand you have a strong belief in Christianity and I'm good with that. And I say this with complete respect. Your very limited view of Islam is highly influenced by fundamentalist and political views of Islam, not the real teachings of the faith. You understand that Islam saw Christ as a prophet, that they have similar creation stories, including a virgin birth and resurrection. How people interpret the teachings doesn't change the basis of the belief. While there are radical Muslims, there are also radical Christians who believe in drinking poison, that women should be completely subservient, that beating children is ok, that polygamy is acceptable and that modern medicine should never be used and only prayer should be.

This is what I mean when I say that religious scholars would disagree with you. Religious scholars look at the foundation of the religion, where it originated, what the tenants of the faith are and what the subordinate doctrine is. Christianity and Islam have much more in common than they don't.

Sorry, I reject Mark Steyn as any source of reasoned opinion. He has a very specific political agenda. And your history of the crusades is a little off, the first crusade was against Turkish Muslim invaders and during that time they also retook Jerusalem and killed most of the Jews and Muslims who were fighting together to defend the city both considered holy. The rest of the crusades (2-9) were supported by the Catholic church and while they had many causes and reasons the underlying mission was to cause conversion to Christianity, including invading Egypt to convert. I admit this is a very very brief and incomplete description of the crusades, but to say that we'd have been born Muslim is a pretty big leap, we could as easily been born worshiping Odin as the Vikings expanded aggressively through Europe as well. Muslim and Christian expansion and atrocities happened because of religion and desire for control. Anyone who opposed or didn't believe was severely punished.

If having a reasoned, intellectual fact based discussion causes you to lose respect or interest, then I simply say, enjoy the fundamentalism you practice, it isn't different than the fundamentalism you criticize. I'd love to continue the conversation if you are open, if not, then thanks for your participation so far.

Carl -

Talking and proving are two distinctly different things. Some human beliefs need to be exposed because they are incorrect. Just because you believe something doesn't make it right and just because a world leader talks about it doesn't make it factual. Law of attraction isn't a law, it can't be proven under the most rudimentary conditions much less scientific conditions and the way it has been sold has caused much more harm than good . . . except for those who market it ruthlessly.

Right on! As far as you go. The “cult” of the EGO is the worst of all, the “gurus” are the advertising industry urging us all to consume as much as possible, be rich and famous, etc. etc.
The only thing wrong with you is that YOU are not using OUR product, buy it and you will be happy. That is why “Americans can't get enough of what they don't need.”

Sadly, the whole world is trying to emulate the American lifestyle. They're destroying the environment and unbounded EGOic GREED has destroyed the world economy.

They appeal to the survival instinct. For some, like Bernie Madoff and Ken Lay there is never ENOUGH, so they become big time thieves to “survive.” Ken Lay is dead of a heart attack, let's see how Madoff chooses to go. – Gale Boulton

Thank you for the excellent info. I think that when medical science uncovers the psycho-neural mechanisms that explain things like the placebo effect and how the brain affects healing in the body then we may be able to better explain why the brains we think we “control” fall into traps, how belonging to exclusive groups (cults or others) fulfills certain human needs, and why humans seem seem to require the validation of their peers to find meaning in life.

Again with the supremacy of science, Dave? You know that is a bias, right?

I think I see the problem here…you wrote ” what matters if if they seek the truth using the methods we know lead to real answers.” 'Real' would be answers that can be proven via the scientific method and then peer reviewed, etc? Trouble is, science does not concern itself with questions of a spiritual or existential nature. Science doesn't care about such things- and certainly cannot quantify them. This is the realm of the spiritualists, artists and philosophers- the Intuitives, if you will.

Consider David Bohm (1917-94) theoretical physicist. Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain in contact with one another regardless of the distance separating them is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal back and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion.

That is only scientific theory at this point. But isn't this what the Buddhists have been intuiting for centuries- that separateness is an illusion? That we are all connected in ways we cannot see or yet measure. This is what I mean when I say that science and intuition MAY come to the same conclusions one day.To be sure, by the time science figures out the mechanics of the universe, you and i will be long dead. I am content to swim in the uncertainty of it all.

Your assertion that the Law of Attraction has caused more harm than good is a bit of hyperbole unworthy of you, i think. How did you go about quantifying that exactly?

Are there people who are willing to spend money they shouldn't have and surrender their personal responsibility to charismatic leaders? You bet. But looking into the good that it has done for people does not really serve your position. I get it. Let's just agree to disagree on the Law of Attraction.

However, we can agree that the information you provided in the interview is necessary and valuable. Any leader, spiritual or otherwise, who will not stand up to scrutiny- or question, IS dangerous.

Respectful discourse from divergent viewpoints is so rare. It's been a pleasure.:-)

Now, you have made some pretty big assumptions about me. I am not a fundamentalist. I don't attend any church. I am not a religious person, although I am a spiritual person. However, I do appreciate the Christian foundation of this country.

I also see, on the ground, the results of what is going on, today, from these different religious groups.

Islam may be intended to be a positive thing. However, in real-life practice, there are at least 30 million islamic extremists who intend devastating death to any who cross them. That's a fact. I am not interested in theory, here.

We do not see Jews or Christians going around blowing people up, decapitating those they disagree with, mutilating the genitals of their daughters, throwing dangerous fits and killing people over criticism of their religion.

Be as “reasoned and intellectual” as you wish. I would rather be looking at reality, especially since I can see very clearly what the infection of Islam is bringing to its new host countries. Europe is nearly destroyed andwill fall to Islam very soon. We do not need the “wonderful” teachings of Islam taking over this country. I respect their right to believe as they wish, but I don't want it pushed off onto me, any more than I want Christians insisting that I convert. (and by the way, I didn't say we were born Muslim, as you referred to).

With Islam, it is required that one either convert or pay a steep tax to stay alive. Islam is based on lies and was created by a violent, dangerous man. One of the reasons it is so popular in prisons is because of the violent, controlling element.

If I were to guess, I'd think you are Islamic and I've stepped on your toes. Muslims in this country, particularly through that criminal organization, CAIR, are trying to present Islam in some kind of positive, wonderful light. However, as I watch the way it works world wide, seeing women subjugated and forced to wear hot clothes on hot days, even seeing a woman in a burnt-orange tent from head to toe on a hot day in Disneyland while her short and t-shirt clad husband strolled ahead in comfort, and hear of all the horrible death and destruction wreaked in the name of Allah, I have to wonder if you ever see any of that.

Regardless, just stop the ridiculous ploy of trying to equate Christianity with Islam. Islam is evil, dark, and dangerous. Some Christians may be nutty, and they may practice their faith in off-beat ways, but generally speaking, whatever they do, the negative seems to remain contained within families, with more positive radiating outward. Many followers of Islam not only subject their families to living hell on earth, but spread the dread around and harm and destroy people, environments, and whole countries.

I am not interested in theories and intellectual evaluations of how things are SUPPOSED to be. I care much more about what I see happening in the here and now. I have yet to see Christians blowing up themselves, their children, their neighbors, their enemies, etc. Christians WILL fight back when attacked, and they will defend their families, country, and others under attack. But Christians will not set out to forcibly make other people become Christian upon pain of death, or try to charge them a tax for not being Christian. No matter what the history of Christianity has ever been, if you take a look at today, you do not see Christians behaving in any way, shape, or form like Muslims.

I'm not interested in religous scholars, being one, or what they have to say. It does not help us in the here and now. It does not cause Muslims to stop the violence and the destruction. Maybe someone should tell the destructive Islamic radicals what the premise of their religion is SUPPOSED to be and to cut it out. But honestly, I own a copy of the “Religion of Peace's” Koran. And I see a LOT of commands to kill others in there. And to abuse women. And lots of other things. And by the way, Mark Steyn did say that Islam was supposed to be a more peaceful religion but it has been hijacked by a sect of Islam that is radicalizing the rest of Islam, bit by bit. To discount something because you think the person simply has a political agenda is a form of slamming your mind shut in order to not have your own thinking challenged. Why do you think Mark Steyn is the way he is? Could it POSSIBLY have ANYTHING to do with the fact that he finds what he sees is disturbing and wants to inform people about it? Thank God, or Allah, or whatever, for people like Mark Steyn!

I do not like the feeling that there is a religion out there with the primary focus of destoying, killing, and harming. That's Islam. It's disgusting.

Hey Guys! While this is certainly an interesting topic, let's stick to the original topic. The self help guru and LGAT phenomenon is something where we can actually have an effect.

I think we have agreement on this one.

Hi Norma, Thanks! I think there is more to learn, but the body of research is pretty clear on why this happens, and no one is immune. What it takes is AVAILABLE information that disconfirms the claim. Old social society experiments show that just one person dissenting can open up the space for people to think for themselves.

At these shows, they do not allow for this or quickly make the dissenter into the “out” group – just like grade school!!!

Does this mean The Secret is not valid or rather it is a cult?

Does this mean the Secret is not valid or that it is a part of a cult?

It means the secret has a lot of things in it that we do not believe are valid, especially “laws” that are not really universal laws. Some folks in the Secret are using their celebrity to create unhealthy followings

I'm with you. The Guru guy wanted to keep pursuing that other topic with me, but it's futile.

Thanks for jumping in!

Here's another funny take on this topic:

http://anti-guru.com/12/how-to-become-a-million…

And a spoof of self-help at http://www.twitter.com/duhism

Agreed.

Exactly, Dave. The inability to distinguish fact from opinion is unskilled thinking and a lack of basic education in reasoning at best. However, coercive cults promote this head on, not just blurring the lines, but rather convincing people that there is no objective quality to truth. And having objectively studied metaphysics and mysticism my whole life, I can authoritatively say that the dogmatic tricks used to disguise bad sense as “enlightened” understanding is bogus — either it is mental illness on the part of the guru, or deliberate deception … a path for “brainwashing”.

Such wishy-washy epistemology becomes a psychological portal for (1) accepting indoctrination, (2) unjustifiable moral relativism, and then (3) becomes a shield from criticism. However, people in a cult are also conditioned to never apply such “open-mindedness” toward criticism of the group itself. It's the way they “open” the mind to what no one would sanely accept, then shut it closed against anything that contradicts it.

Yes, they all teach “personal responsibility”, but in a perverted sense. It means self-blame, which is a puerile coping mechanism that gives a sense of control and release over past and present experiences. What a spiritual win that is {sarcasm} …

Cui bono? The cult/fraud/author. Indoctrinating overstated self-”responsibility” (using repulsion of the straw man negative connotations of being a “victim”) is a clever unfalsifiable argument for the infallibility of their methods and beliefs.

It is also why most people who have been abused by such coercion will never admit it, even being conditioned to the point it is unlikely they could get themselves to sue or press charges against the cult — any healthy thinking of holding OTHERS accountable is conditioned out of them as being a “victim mentality” instead of common sense justice.

Hello Mchael. Hello Dave. Thank you for explaining that coercive leaders are very successful because their followers are easily led by authoiryt figures. As a harvard trained educational interventionist, I can assure you the educational system considers the best teachers those who can control their students..What can I say? We are trained from infancy to allow others in an authoritative position to lead us for if we rebel, heaven forbid we actually become an independent thinker, we are taught we will never become a part of the pack or live on harmony with society. My adoptive father had no problems keeping me in line and isolated. if I did not eat all that others placed on my plate, I could get beaten so furiously, I would not care to disobey lest he would kill me. if I went across the streat without his knowledge and consent, another furious beating was extended me. If I brought something from school he had not bought, i would be proclaimed a thief and given yet another beating. And there were never any apo;logies for having been proven wro ng about the initial evaluation stating i had done wrong. Inflicting physical pain or humiliating us in front of our peers are powerful ways of teaching us that we need to allow figures in authorith to lead us like cattle to theri grave. Perhaps someone sould take a closer look at how we make children submit so that we can think of ourselves as great teachers capable of controlling his or her students. After all, a successful educational system trains us how we need to act in order to become a successful member of society.

Why aren't teachers described as the second set of people in every child's life who are masters of coercive persuation? Sorry, but parents already stole the first positon.

it should come as no surprise that the great majority of us just follow the lead in every area of our adult life just like we followed the lead of our teachers in every course others determined we had to take and learn from in school.

Sorry guys but the problems starts much earliers than at the time we are exposed to others adult thinkers. Face it. The great majority of children are put on a feeding schedule. That, i think, is where our training in allowing others to lead us no matter what begins.

Hello Mchael. Hello Dave. Thank you for explaining that coercive leaders are very successful because their followers are easily led by authoiryt figures. As a harvard trained educational interventionist, I can assure you the educational system considers the best teachers those who can control their students..What can I say? We are trained from infancy to allow others in an authoritative position to lead us for if we rebel, heaven forbid we actually become an independent thinker, we are taught we will never become a part of the pack or live on harmony with society. My adoptive father had no problems keeping me in line and isolated. if I did not eat all that others placed on my plate, I could get beaten so furiously, I would not care to disobey lest he would kill me. if I went across the streat without his knowledge and consent, another furious beating was extended me. If I brought something from school he had not bought, i would be proclaimed a thief and given yet another beating. And there were never any apo;logies for having been proven wro ng about the initial evaluation stating i had done wrong. Inflicting physical pain or humiliating us in front of our peers are powerful ways of teaching us that we need to allow figures in authorith to lead us like cattle to theri grave. Perhaps someone sould take a closer look at how we make children submit so that we can think of ourselves as great teachers capable of controlling his or her students. After all, a successful educational system trains us how we need to act in order to become a successful member of society.

Why aren’t teachers described as the second set of people in every child’s life who are masters of coercive persuation? Sorry, but parents already stole the first positon.

it should come as no surprise that the great majority of us just follow the lead in every area of our adult life just like we followed the lead of our teachers in every course others determined we had to take and learn from in school.

Sorry guys but the problems starts much earliers than at the time we are exposed to others adult thinkers. Face it. The great majority of children are put on a feeding schedule. That, i think, is where our training in allowing others to lead us no matter what begins.

The ease with which you were able to discuss the various aspects of the subject matter was truly amazing. I appreciated the “unflinching eye and scalpel in hand” approach to the various aspects: the very good, bad, indifferent or induced by plain greed or narcissism.
In my own family I witnessed a loving parent with the best intentions at heart insisting his 5 year old son watch the Secret to teach him how to” set his intention” for anything he desires. The now 8 year old kid has problems “manifesting” and gets very angry and impatient , and dad tells him he just is not doing it right! Sad. However- he is very musical and brilliant in sciences and his grandma is still able to divert his energy to pursuits that give him pure joy.

Dear Maija,

It was most gracious of you to reply to my observations on the subject of coercive persuasion.

in February of 2002, I attended a Loving Relationshps Workshop held in Albuquerque, New Mexico. During one of the breaks, I came across a book entitled “Birth Without Violence”

This book explains how current hospital ways of childbirth are pretty violent by the baby's standards. It went ahead and explained how we persuade babies to eat based on schedules which have nothing to do with the baby's own need to satisfy his or her need for nourishment.

As I read the book, I could not help recalling how i was forced to eat what others placed on my plate and in the amounts they chose for me as I had no say in the matter but to submit.

Then, I recalled how educational leaders consider superb teachers those who prevail over their students and manage to control their behavior.

I remembered how the system favored the process of remembering and repeating over independent, critical thinking skills for these brought a lot more work to the teachers when doing the correcting of papers.

Yes, there are extraordinary people like Michael Lovitch who have managed to retain their capaciyu yop think independently. But people like Michael are in the great minority. Man in the mass no longer thnks. Man in the mass is no longer inhuman. he is unhuman. Thus our society's ever increasing violence.

Maija, it takes a whole lot of courage to think in today's society.

I am profoundly sorry for the people who died in the sweat lodge but what touches me most is the continuous destructive ideals being pushed down the thraots of our youngsters in the name of freedom.

Recently, there was an article in the front page of the Orlando Sentinel describing how cruel children younger than 2 years of age are being treated by those caring for them. Babies were being burned alive with scalding water.

So if a few adults die as a result of their obeying people in authority after being trained for an entire lifetime in the art of allowing others to coerce them into behaving in a cetain way, as sorry as it all sounds, it is the little ones being the recipients of wanton cruelty what moves me to act ASAP.

I was blessed with a maternal grandmother who was the perfect expression of lovingkindness. It is her ways of dealing with others what I consciously strive to emulate. And the hypnosis training tools dealing with strengthening my inner values truly has helped me become more confident.

How about you? What has proven a real blessing from the CDs offered by the Hypnosis Network?

We are so fortunate in not being subjected to the shame resuoting from not being able to master THE SECRET. If something goes wrong, these teacher simply tell you you are not doing it right as if there was something intrinsically wrong with one.

What can I say to this sad example? It differs not at all from a parent telling their child that they did not get what they wanted because they did not receive favor from a capricious God who hands out punishment and favors alike at (His) whim, leaving the child wondering why he doesn't 'rate'. I am glad to hear that someone with a clear eye is nurturing him in the directions of his joy and strengths.

Religious Science and its principles are subject to the same misinterpretation and misuse as any doctrine. Anyone can use jargon ( it seems inescapable) to blame and shame, if that is their particular style of parenting/living. I would venture to guess that Judaism, Christianity, Muslim, all have members who misuse and misunderstand the teachings they purport to uphold. Either out of an inability to grasp the greater truths inherent in the teachings, or an unwillingness to step aside and pay attention to the impact of all that jargon- the reasons , I'm sure are endless . We get them in our churches too. Big surprise- we're all a part of the human race.

There will always be people who are looking for someone else to tell them what to think, and how to act, and the more charismatic the minister, the more fervent their devotion. But to paint everyone who follows Religious Science as being in blind obedience, acting against their own best interest, and using blame and shame against anyone who does not succeed in “manifesting” is insulting in the extreme, and I believe not founded in an exhaustive knowledge of the subject. It certainly has not been my experience.

One final note: My personal opinion on “The Secret” was that it was a facile bit of 'monkey poetry' that did a disservice to the teachings it supposed to hold at its center. It was dumbed down to make it as widely accessible as possible. The 'real' teachings of Religious Science are far more profound, and less accessible to a video watching audience. Nor can they be assimilated by 1000 people at once during an expensive weekend retreat.

Peace out.

Re: your final comment on the “Secret”- I agree wholeheartedly. The need to sell to millions obscured some wonderful insights.

Dear Maija,

I am a personal friend of Mike Dooley, one of the “teachers: appearing in The Secret and a member of his adventurers Club, a group of people who are determined to enjoy the adventure of life in time and space.

When we got invited to watch The Secret, one of those attending explained that originally Esther and Jerry Hicks, the couple sharing with the world the teachings of Abraham, were scheduled to appear but somoething went bokers and the DVD came out “sligtly” different than what was originally intended.

I have studied many systems of religion and have observed hundreds of “charismatic” leaders as well. Have to tell you, not everyone truly goes indepth in the study of religion in general and/or their religion in particular. It is far easier to let someone else do the thinking and one does the following. Hey, that is what most parts of society train man-in-the-mass for: to be followers.

i was blessed with a Mom who desperately wanted people to love me and accept me. her advice was to do whatever people wanted and be in agreement with whatever people thoughy.

True to her instructions, I observed others and discovered that based upon their beliefs, their reality always confirmed what they thought.

Funny, though, thre “truth” differed from one person to another. That observatin is what started me in the study of what is “the truth” if such a thing is really a fact of life.

This weird set of instructions is what got me to think intently about which “truths” I was willing to alow into my thinking for whatsoever one thinks and feels and verbalizes and acts upon, that will create your personal reality.

Accepting ideas that may limit me is something I am wary about….especially if the idea comes from some self-proclaimed guru.

There are many wonderful sustems of beliefs out there and, it is my humble opinion, that they will draw to themselves those people who are in need of their teachings whatever those may be. So, in a real sense, they are all good because they are all meeting some deep need for growth of the people they attract to their teachings.

I am truly grateful that the man historically known as Jesus Christ did not write one word . If anyone desires to learn directly from him, he or she must seek oneness with his living presence, mind and heart.

it is my opinion that the creation of such state of at-one-ness will help you bypass the interpretations of charismatic, self appointed gurus or whatever their title may be and allow you to learn in the best way possible to meet your specific needs.

The mutual unconditional love that sustains this teaching-learning experience will, no doubt, produce growth at your own pace without producing any feelings of shame or guilt if at first you appear not to be 100% successful.

Like the grandma who nurtured those areas which brought joy and strength to the little boy, I find this inner relationship most efficient for it healps me understand without the guilt and the humiliation born from the belief one has sinned or missed the mark which is one and the same thing.

But then, I have just described the finest way I have discovered for me to learn and grow at the soul level. Other people in different states of consciouness will probably need other ways of learning unlike mine. And those other ways are OK, too for they are meeting the special needs of the ones choosing them.

once again, thsnk you for your input in this process.

Be well.

Dear Lezl,

While reading your observations about this little boy's wonderful grandma and her deliberately choosing to nurture that whicc will add joy and will build upon the little boy's strengths, I could feel the wonderful loving soul that you truly are. and how deeply you cared for this little boy as well.

I agree with you 100% that it is baffling to be taught of God as a punishment rendering Dude who acts upon one's mishaps at whim and causes one to wonder why one does not rate well with this powerful being.

Many religions teach their member it is necessary to be God fearing men and women to make the grade. Few systems of belief teach their members how wonderful it is to become a
God lo individual for actiong out an inner motivations to live love is what God wants from each of us.

How about you, Lezl ? Have you discovered love to be a more powerful and efficints motivator ?

has love shown you the way out of the presence of people whose leadership style is in harmony with the coercive persuasion which Michael finds a great deterrent to personal growth and well being?

I would welcome learning what has worked for you to protect yourself from such self-proclaimed gurus or religious leaders or whatever they get called in their own circle of thought.

Be Well.

Dear Jeannette,
I am most grateful for your insights , comments and beliefs.
What a wonderful word- “at-one-ness” – it expresses everything – openess, awarenes, allowing, observing. Thank you for speaking to my heart..
I feel I have found a soulmate ( Oh, no -this is a word I was determined never to use!)
With loving thoughts and peacefull “at-one -ness” , Maija

Hi Jeannette,

You are very observant. This is obviously such a hot button topic for so many.

There would be no issue if people realized (not just intellectual realization) that they ARE Source. That there is nothing else that exists.

Source is Source. And Source is all knowing, there is no need for external knowledge gained from another. Everyone already has within them all the knowledge they could ever want, they just don't BELIEVE that they do. They believe that someone else has access to something that they don't have. And as your Mom so beautifully taught you, we always create and experience according to our beliefs.

We are powerful beyond measure – and that is it in a nutshell!

With Love, Appreciation and Joy!

Amy

Jeannette,

Thanks for your comments and your question.

To answer your first question: How do I protect myself from coercive leaders? The simple answer is that I learned to set my standards for 'religiosity' by my grandfather, who was a minister in small rural towns in Illinois and Nebraska. I never heard him preach, by I watched the way he lived his life- with humor, compassion, and the absence of piety and judgment. He had a lightness of being coupled with a keen intelligence and deep faith that was rare. He also believed that God gave us a brain, and expected us to use it.

Ironically, it was this same independence of thought that sent me away from his faith, or any faith, and into the realm of the non-believers. I heard so much judgment, watched so much deliberate cruelty in the name of Christianity- and so FEW examples of my grandfather's brand of faith- that I turned away from ALL of it.

So when I came to a Religious Science church for the first time MANY years later, it was to make sure that my friends had not stumbled into a cult. Seriously. That is why I went.

I stayed because I found a philosophy that resonated with my own- that we are each responsible for not only what happens to us, but that what we believe about the world shapes our experience of it. And yes, though I am loathe to admit it in THIS forum, I found a capacity for loving, accepting, and helping others that is at odds with the culture at large.
And I found people that I have slowly, deliberately and painstakingly come to trust.

So, in answer to your second question- against all odds, and in spite of everything I thought I knew about myself, I am now a proponent of love as the answer to the worlds ills. Not the sappy sentimental kind- not the puppies and kittens and hearts and flowers kind- but the kind my grandfather poured forth into the world- a love of people, a belief in their inherent good, with sweat and muscle and faith behind it.

Thanks for raising the discussion to a higher level.

Peace.

Dear Lezl,

You have not mentioned if your GRANPA is still alive on this earth plane but, I assure you, should he were still around, i would think it an honor to get to know him and talk with him. He expresses all that I cherish about “religiousness” which, I assure you, hass nothing to do with churches and church commitees.

There is a truly beautiful book entitled YOUR SOUL'S PLAN written by a man called Robert Schwartz which states that, out of mutual unconditional love, before we were born, those people who have been in a significant relationship with us acceoted tto act out a part of the script of our life this time around. They chose to cooperate with our life to help us learn the lessons we chose for this lifetime.

Lezl, the moment I read this book, I understood that all is well regardless of appearances because all is the product of the choices we made together with others who agreed upon their portion of the script out of love for us. The recerse is also true.

I read it and then took time to ponder upon the ways in which others have helped me become the loving person I truly am. Then, there was no more need for forgiveness for all was the outworking of unconditional love in my life.

People still tell me the story of their life while sitting next to me in the cusses without my ever inquiring for information and i still listen to these precious souls who chose to give me the opportunity to love them just as they are.

I attended a Unity church here in orlando for years simply becuase the Minister used to give each attendee a hug before and after services. So, I do understand why you stayed in the Christian Science church and gave yourself the opportunity to love and be loved.

When I first contributed to this blog, I wondered if anyone would take the time to read, reflect upon, and reply to my observations. I am truly touched … profoundly touched. But, to be considered somone else's soulmate, now that is an honor I never thought I would receive..

When I think of another person, I allow the pure white light carrying love alive within me to enfold the others with the love who I am. It has been written that one should not attempt to direct love for love, if it finds you worthy, will direct your steps. Believe me it takes a lot of love to love people just as they are and truly believe they, too, will someday learn they are love and act accordingly.

I am not a doormar nor a wimp. If i get cut, I do bleed. But before i engage in any form of rejection, I cannot ehlp asking myself why I attracted a person inot my life and truly try to find the good in the situation. it is not always easy but it sure feels good yto give it an honest try.

Lezl, I have long stopped attending places where I am forced into becoming a God fearing person. So, in a real sense, I am not likely to be pushed around by a cult leader who will cause my death in order to be right.

As Jose Silva senior once said: It is possible to live your life without any illness and, when you have fulfilled your destiny, just close your eyes and go back to your Source, LOVE.

believe me I am still trying to get the part about living without illenss right for i do intend to fulfill my destiny: to found the School of love and leave it as my legacy for posterity

Keep in touch.

Jeannette Mendez
<jeannette_mendez_dejesus@yahoo.com>

Iam thankful to be part of these discussions . How wonderful to find that we share so many experiences that relate to our upbringing. The values instilled by Lizl's grandfather are the same that my grandparents lived by -all four of them . Their children and grandchildren have simply continued in their footsteps. Iam at present writing an article about my memories of one of my granddads- Atis . A poet, writer, educator, trail-blazer, lover of music, arts and nature. One of his sayings: “Doing harm to anyone hurts your own heart and soul”.
He survived two trips to Siberia during the Soviet occupation of Latvia.
His poetry during this period reflected peace and enlightenment during abysmal deprivation. His feet wrapped in newspapers , he found beauty and magnificence in the harsh nature of the Siberian Tundra .
How fortunate I was to have such wonderful influences during my childhood and early life.
At present my greatest joy is music, the company of my daughter- a very enlightened soul , singing in choirs and bathtubs, my two grandsons, a husband of 55 years, amazing friends around the world and an ever expanding circle of awareness .
Namaste, Maija

Dear Maija,

The more I read about this now 8 years old boy, the more I recall the first day of class when I used to teach English to non=native speakers at the college level.

I used to tell the students which came from all kinds of educational backgrounds and in all ages and sizes:

Unless you sit in this class and choose not do a thing, it is impossible for you to fail. I have yet to see any student who has proven he has learned from being punished because of the pace or style he learns. Consequently, I do not believe in punishing students because they did not learn what i strove to teach when I taught it.

Every test will be organized by skills. if in any particular skill, you manage to do corretly 75% or better, you are done with being tested for that particular skill. If you manage to accomoplish 74% or less, you will be extended the opportunity to be tutored until we find the way you learn this skills best and you experience the joy of mastering it.

I could see in their faces the relief they felt when it dawned on them they cold not fail in my calass becuase the purpose of it all was for them to learn not for them to show me how much they had learned within a cetain frame of time.

Trust me, it did take a lot of work at first but, once the students experienced success, they just took off and loved learning the language.

My fellow professors just hated my style but…. you know what …. I did not become an educator to win the approval of other teachers. I was there for my kids….. even if these were adults already operating their own businesses.

The purpose of education is not to show a human being that he or she does not make the grade. The purpose of education is to help build up a human being by showing him how to make the grade…. in his or her own distinct way of learning.

I have no idea why I was good enough to be considered your soulmate but frightening enough to move you to remind yourself you would never call another human your soulmate.

What can I do to so increase your trust in me that it will feel OK for you to think of me as your soulmate?

It adds such joy to one's life when we discover another soul equal to one with whom we feel at ease about sharing that which is most sacred and beautiful in one's self.

Don't you think it would be worth the effort to completely break and dissolve whatsoever is limiting your ability to expereince joy?

If and when you decide to give it a try, do let me know.

Jeannette Mendez

Hi, Jeannette!
Iam sorry you misunderstood me. My apologies.

The word “soulmate” is bandied around so much in our pop culture, that it has even become acceptable to say : “Oh, we are soulmates – we are wearing the same earings and shoes! We both like Timmy's coffee!” The word is being used the same context as :” I love your car, pantyhose etc.”
For that reason I have been trying to find other words to reflect my feelings. But in your instance I just had to break my own rules . I truly feel that I can share my thoughts and feelings with you. A true soulmate, not one with whom you only share the same taste in clothes etc. “Soulmate” felt so right!
By the way- it was one of the reasons why I responded to your letter about grandfathers!
You have such a caring heart!
Maija

My Dear Maija,

To me a soulmate is a truly precious soul who perceived the world through very similar glasses as the ones I look at. He or she is not my duplicate. He or she is a soul whose growth and understanding of life, regardless of the way it has evolved, has helped him or her to appreciate the same values as I do.

Maija, I was 8 years of age when my Mom's new job made it necessary for me to stay in a quiet room in a convent after school hours until my parents could come pick me up. The only sounds i was able to hear and enjoy were those made by the students who took piano lessons from one of the nuns.

In order to be able to finance my weekly piano lesson, I saved the 10 cents I received for food every week day and the 25 cents my maternal grandmother gifted me ever Saturday. In order to practice my lessons, the nun made for me a keyboard from a cardboard box on which she drew the keyboard for me to practice.

Then one day my Mom quit her job and my Dad decided to transfer me to a new school. Because I dared to object to my being changed into a new school where I alledged would not be taking the same classes, I was left with no choice but to disclose that I had been taking piano lessons.

As always before, neither of my parents believed me and, in order to put an end to my objections, took me to the convent where the piano teacher confirmed the fact that i had been her student for over a year and had paid for all my classes with my own lunch money.

So, my Dad took me to a piano teacher of his choice so he could evaluate my music potential. Surprise ! I was pronounced very gifted and was accepted into this musician and composer's academy free of charge.

But my sight and hands have deteriorated and I cannot play anymore. But I can whistle and sing beautifully to my heart's content. This comes so natural, I sometimes have been made aware of the fact that I am whistling or singing in places like the supermarket.

One Saturday evening I sang for an old married couple who had emigrated from Cuba inot the USA. I sang their favorite ballad as it was their 60th wedding aniversary. I sang to them while they stood across from the register where I worked. Needless to say, the Store Manager asked for an explanation as to why I had become the store's singing cashier. I did not get fired on the spot because I was well known amongst the Spanish speaking community and the sales originating from the help I extended these customers made me a welcomed addition to the store.

So, go ahead and sing to your heart's content ! You are in good company as far as i am concerned.

If I were able to, I would move back to Swannanoa Palace where my mentot and personal friend Lao Russell used to live and work. Located on Mount Afton, it is as close to heaven as I would love to be and the natural beauty encfolding this area is just breath taking.

I, too have daughters whom I love dearly and who are very spiritual. I have a granddaughter for whom I prayed to come into my life for 15 long years. I have no husband for my calling has made it challenging to be found by my balanced mate. But, I have not lost hope at all.

I have the3 absolute conviction that my true mate will arrive in my life in divine order at the precisely right time for all involved.

I see no misunderstaning alive between us. What i do see is a wonderful opportunity to share a world of awesome experiecnes and perceptions with a truly remarkable lady whom I sure hope will accept becoming my friend.

Be Well.

Jeannette Mendez

Dear Dr. Hakes,

I absolutely adored the idea of blogging each ot he issues hereine listed by you.

Would it be OK with you if we added another issue which, I feel, is very relevant to the welfare of the USA? I am thinking about the admission into the USA the 24,000,000 inmigrants who are here without permission and who are exploited by Americans just like Africans were expoited and enslaved in our early beginnings?

With thousands of people from all over the world already waiting to be allowed to enter into the USA using processes which are in harmony with law and order, why must these law breakers take priority in the inmigration process?

The ensalvement and exploitation of another human within our borders is totally unacceptable to me. We fought the Civil War to put an end to this inhumanity within our nation. So, why are we going weak in the knees when it comes to putting this entire matter in order.

Would also blogging this issue be acceptable to you?

Jeannette Mendez

Responding to Jeanette Mendez's letter:

Few have ever heard of Swannaoa or the work of Lao and Walter Russell, who was a great American renaissance man of the early 20th century. Self taught, Walter was a musician, sculptor, scientist and philosopher, he discovered two of the elements now on the atomic periodic chart.. He was an accomplished horseman and figure skater, a sport and performance art form he introduced to America.

The Russells were friends of many of the greats of their era, Theodore Roosevelt, Thomas A. Edison, Dr. Alexis Carrell, Andrew Carnegie, to name a few. Together with some of these, the Russells founded the “Twilight Club”, the predecessor to today's Rotary Clubs.

Walter Russell never married until mid-life. He KNEW his soulmate would show up, she did and it was Lao. Together, they founded “The University of Science and Philosophy” which I studied for a time in the 1990's, and now wish to continue.
Sadly, Swannanoa had to be sold because of financial difficulties, but their teachings
survived.

I believe the Russells were ignored by historians because they were not “politically or theologically correct”, having a different “take” on Christ and life.

Their contributions need to be honored and widely recognized.

Gale Boulton, New Zealand

Where was the place located?

Thank you Jeanette, for sharing your thoughts so beautifully expressed in your elegant writing. What a childhood!

I believe we can have more than one soulmate based on similar heartfelt values. We need all we can get. This ego-driven, unbalanced humanity is about to transform in a quantum leap to a higher vibration of consciousness or perish in a massive cataclysm

Being an eternal optimist,
and based on what can only be termed “divine intervention ” many times in my own life and unexplained external events in the physical world, I'm betting on transformation,
example: Deepak Chopra has said he and 1000 other meditators were in Berlin when the Wall came down! Coincidence? Unlikely. No one had a clue, especially our CIA,
that this would ever occur. The volkspolitzi just stood around, awestruck and didn't fire a shot. Humans are now sailing boats and flying Cessnas with mind power alone,
“look, ma, no hands.”

Our soldiers have been getting psychic training from Lt. Col. Jim Channon and his people (see him on YOU Tube. First EARTH Batallion.) The current movie, “Men Who Stare at Goats” with George Clooney is a comedy based on Channon's real work.

Remember in “Star Wars” when Luke Skywalker was trying to destroy the Death Star
with computer guidance to the right spot? Finally after several attempts, Obi Wan Kenobi telepathically told him, “Turn off your computer, Luke.” (and hit he target psychically) It worked!

Remember Stanley Kubrick's film “2001, a Space Odyssey?” Human consciousness took a quantum leap whenever the black slab appeared. The black slab meant impending disaster, averted only by a quantum leap in consciousness.

Most agree that wars are started by people with sick minds, like Hitler and Stalin. (We won't mention George W. Bush) What if the the minds of current warmongers like those in Iran, N.Korea and the Taliban in Afghanistan could be distance healed with loving Reiki and and Silva work?

We wouldn't need to send 30,000 more troops to miserable Afghanistan with that logistics nightmare and humongous loss of life and treasure we can't afford.

I have started a blog “2010, a Peace Odyssey” hoping to attract psychic adepts who can be of value. You can visit it at Blogger.com, my mantra: “World peace will be an INSIDE JOB.” Why not?

I just had a tour of Swannanoa and the work of Walter and Lao Russell on WIKIPEDIA
Jesus' quote, “Of myself I can do nothing, it is the Father who does the work.” comes to mind. Otherwise how could these quiet, unassuming and loving people have accomplished so much? I am ready to again re-enter their University of Science and Philosophy, when I originally enrolled in 1997 that night, I had a lucid dream that they came to welcome me and put on a spectacular light show which went on and on. I told Laara about it on the phone and she said, “Yes, they do that sometimes.” Wow!

Currently I've achieved further clarification of consciousness by studying Eckhart Tolle's “A New Earth” (Do his initials mean Extra Terrestrial?)

Tolle ends his book with, “A new species is arising on the planet. It is arising now
and you are it!”

Love and Light — Gale Boulton

Dave, thanks a lot for your reply.
I agree about the non-physical-entity trick, and actually I think in Abraham-Hicks teachings there are definitely some inconsistencies.
Though I think they are not comparable to people like Bob Proctor or cults such as James Ray's. They may have created a sort of “cult” but by no means the same type of bad cult…

Dear Gale Boulton,

You have caused a river of tears …. tears of pure joy … to flow out of my eyes. I loved and was loved by Lao Russell so much. I miss her loving presence so much. Reading your comments on their work was trully an unexpected surprise and joy.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I was 13 years of age when God opened my inner vision and showed me the marble staircase leading to the stained glass mural located half way from the first to the second floor at Swannanoa Palace, waynesboro, Virginia, USA. During my vision, I was walking up the steps where I was to learn something that would totally change the course of my life. When I came down the steps, I KNEW my life would never be the same again.

Shortly after, my father decided to take Mom and me to the eastern USA for a grand tour. I looked at every marble starcase I found but no where was my envisiones one.

It wasn't until November, 1974 when, through a friend in Silva Mind Control, that I was introduced to the writings of Lao Russell. After my time at Harvard, Lao invited me to stay with her for a week at Swannanoa.

And so, it was in May of 1976, 13 years after my initial vision, that i came face to face with the glass stained mural, went up the staricase, and met Lao privately in her bedroom. True to God's intial vision, when I came down the same staircase, I was never the same person.

During that first talk in her bedroom, Lao showed me the 4 archangels naturally engraved in the wood which was used to make her bedroom doors.

it took another 13 years for me to be able to physically return to Swannanoa where I had promised to come live and carry out my life's work. Unfortunately, Lao was no longer there to greet me in a physical sort of way. While standin in her bedroom once again, I heard her say to me: “Yhis was never intended to be a book selling operation.” which is what the University of Science and Philosophy she founded has become.

During a later visit, I was mentioning how beautiful the 4 archanges in Lao's bedrrom were and not one person who had lived at Swannanoa and workd along with her had knowledge of these. So, I led those unbelievers to her bedroom and, after closing all 4 doors, showed them what Lao herself had shown me.

It was then that I realized how precious I had been to her and i felt touched once again by the majesty of this entire set of experinces whihc have made my life so precious.

In May of 1976 just a few weeks before i was invited to Swannanoa, God took me inot my own mountaintop of inspiration and showed me a learning center which would teach people how to turn on love for the purpose of directing this power to waring nations and people to dissolved the forces which threatento destroy humanity.

I agree with you completely. World peace will be an inside job to be worked out by people like you and me who are committed to it.

The current owner of Swannanoa has no desire to put more money into it to restore itto its original beauty. I keep envisioning myself living and working there with the colosal statue of the Christ of the Blue Ridge back in its sculptured gardes, its true place, that posterity may be blessed.

Once again, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Let's keep in touch. I will be taking a serious look at your blog and will welcome your writing me, if you so desire.

Jeannette Mendez-de Jesus

<jeannette_mendez_dejesus@yahoo.com>

Dear Maija,

Swannano Palace is located on Mount Afton, Waynesboro, Virginia, USA

The first time i visted the palace, the bac driver explained thta many people get lost in the mountain for it is usually coverd with heavey fog.

My answer to his concern?

“It took 13 years for me to find my way to this place. We will not get lost.”

True to my words, the fog kept lifting all the way to the top where th palace is located at. When we arrived two awesome rainbows were surrounding the palace. It was as if God Himself were welcoming the meeting of the two of us, Lao and me, on that auspicious day.

The palace has been turned into a bed and breakfast and weddings can be celebrated in its ground. So, you can go there if so you desire.

When Lao lived there, she was promised only those whom God alllowed to reach her would make it to the top. This is ow she was protected from all harm….and kept at all times focised on her life's work.

I have no idea how long this blogg will be available for us to communicate. So, if you like, I will welcome our staying in touch directly. I have enclosed my personal e-mail address for your convenience.

Be Well.

Jeannette Mendez-de Jesus

<jeannette_mendez_dejesus@yahoo.com>

Dave, great interview. It's nice to see a voice of reason amid the sea of “light-sided” fluff. Debbie Ford also has great material about accepting/harnessing your “negative” or “dark” emotions. I'm surprised that you didn't mention the power of MLM leaders. Many of them get heavy criticism for their cult-like tactics(books & CD instruction, lifestyle changes, give up family activities for business, criticism of those who don't succeed, heavy religious overtones, etc). If anyone wants to learn to navigate through all of the spin and slippery, misleading info in today's competitive world, they need to get your book, Subliminal Persuasion. The suggested follow-up material is incredible. Talk about a shift in context & perception! Thanks.

Dave Lakhani here. In the interview I did that you listened to here, I mention the Cult Awareness Network as a resource for learning more. I've since learned that The Cult Awareness Network is owned and staffed by Scientologists. I'd strongly recommend against engaging them as a resource. It was simply an oversight on my part and I'd never intentionally recommend any organization that has connections to questionable groups. Steve Hassan has great information, a solid resource center, is a licensed mental health professional and is the author of Combatting Cult Mind Control, you can find his website here: http://www.freedomofmind.com

Dave,

Thanks for weighing in.

In your interview, you recommend Rick Ross as a resource to fight cults. I'm wondering why you are now recommending Steve Hassan instead?

I realize that Hassan is a reputable cult resource as well. However, you recommended the Freedom of Mind site for its resources, when Ross's site is far more extensive. It's chock full of up-to-date information on the latest cults and other potentially harmfully groups and individuals. One can check out http://www.rickross.com to compare it as a resource.

The subject of your interview is James Arthur Ray. Steve's website contains nothing about James Arthur Ray. Whereas Rick Ross's site (http://www.rickross.com) contains a whopping 38 links to stories about James Arthur Ray.

Perhaps you simply weren't aware of this.

I am glad that Dave has corrected his previous advice regarding CAN being a good destination for persons exiting a cult. CAN has been a Scientology front for 14 years. This oversight was originally pointed out to Dave on the Rick Ross Cult Education Forum by the posters there. The resources on the Ross site are awesomely extensive whilst Steve Hassan is also doing much-needed work.
I am sure that it was an oversight that Dave omitted to mention the excellent resources on the Ross site in his recommendations.

A very active discussion on James Arthur Ray is taking place here:

http://tinyurl.com/yahxukg

“James Arthur Ray – 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge”

It was not an oversight, I chose to list Steven Hassan because he is a licensed mental health professional.

Dave,
Do you think you could get your oversight correction posted close to the original broadcast of that oversight so that anyone taking your original referral at face value (and not reading through the 90 comments posted here) is not so severely misled?
Steve Hassan does good work.

As I mentioned in the forum it has already been taken care of. The editor of this blog was traveling, I asked him to make the change days ago in a phone message and spoke with him personally today. As you'll note, the change has been made up top.

Thank you, Dave, much appreciated.

Hi Stoic. I noticed on the Rick Ross forums that you posted that the support email on this blog was not working (and then made assumptions based on this).

You used a different email address than we have posted on the contact us area. You used: help@hypnosis.com [which of course will not work].

Then you corrected the email address on your post to: help@hypnosisnetwork.com [which works and of course has always worked].

But you decided for some reason not to mention this. Out of fairness – please correct that post and all that it implies. I am not sure why you did not do this in the first place.

And a side note. Dave left me a phone message Monday morning requesting the correction, because I was not checking messages I was only able to get to it today.

Hi Michael,
I tried several times to email help@hypnosisnetwork.com and received an' invalid email' message each time. I cut and pasted the email address directly from your Contact page.
I then wrote a snail mail letter to you which I have yet to post.
In my comment on the RickRoss forum, I originally mistyped the email address as help@hypnosis.com, posted, re-read my post, then corrected the address within minutes.
I did speculate as to why the email address was invalid, it was speculation and I do not profess to know things that I cannot know. If the email address now works I will be happy to mention that on the Rick Ross Cult Education Forum.

It does seem like an oversight to me. James Ray is a big part of your interview, I think it makes sense to recommend a web site that includes coverage of Ray. Steven Hassan's web site does not have anything about James Ray, the other site by Rick Ross does, quite a lot.

Also you recommend a book by Steven Hassan that is kind of outdated, it was published in 1990. There are other books published much more recently which have been reviewed favorably, e.g. Madeleine Tobias & Janja Lalich's Take Back Your Life and Margarget Thaler Singer's Cults In Our Midst. Madeleine Tobias is a psychotherapist, the late Margarget Singer was a clinicial psychologist and professor.

Also Steven Hassan has a more recent book out which I prefer to the Combatting Cult Mind Control book which you mentioned. Hassan's other book is Releasing the Bonds. Just bear in mind that the book is very expensive if you go thru Amazon, otherwise you need to order it direct from his web site.

The important thing is, let's steer people to the latest info about cults. Let's become educated about cults since there are people like James Ray out there looking to mess with our precious minds and lives.

I will take you at your word (although the misprint on your first post at rickross seems to explain this better).

We have made no changes to our email system, and have been getting multiple emails to help@hypnosisnetwork.com every day now for over five years now and have not noticed any technical issues in the last week.

When I saw your post, I did a quick test and it came through in minutes.

You may want to try again. It will go to our support team.

If you do get the same error you mentioned – please do forward it to: michael@hypnosisnetwork.com and I will look into it.

Anyway, if the correct email really did not work then I apologize. It would just be really, really strange if that were the case. My gut tells me that this is not the email you used, but stranger things have happened!

P.S. The snail mail is also correct. We have a real office with real people!!!

I think this is the main point. I was very disturbed by what happened with James Ray and being close to the industry have been disturbed by what is going on with guru type leaders for a long time now.

Not being an expert myself, I sought out Dave to help people steer clear of these types of groups and people. I think he did a very good job.

The Rick Ross community obviously has more experience in this area and might have found it lacking (I would not be the best judge of this).

However, I know Dave's intentions were to help people and I really think he did. I welcome any additions to this posts that are well intentioned and meant to help people with the purpose of this post.

A side benefit of Dave's mistake about CAN is that more people (who aren't already in the anti-cult community) might become aware of the fact that the Scientologists somehow took over CAN – and then completely bastardized it. Pure Evil.

For full disclosure, I am a personal friend of Dave's. We have beers together!

In person he is about as far from coercive leader as one could be. I realize that from the titles of his books and products it could seem otherwise.

But in real life he is the kind of person who changes his mind a lot because he is human. We argue a lot and he does not get defensive or dogmatic. I also change my mind a lot because life can get pretty confusing.

Huh? Who said Dave was a coercive leader? Not understanding why you'd say he isn't one. Did I miss something?

Read articles about the problematic Cult Awareness Network here:

http://www.rickross.com/groups/newcan.html

I used to get newsletters from James Ray, but I got fed up with him pushing things that were of no interest to me whatsoever.

He was quite 'snaky' with me at one point when I told him that for me to travel from NZ to his special weekend events etc, was absolutely prohibitive in price!

Why would I want to pay thousands of dollars for a weekend, including about $5,000 for the airfares and transport to the event site?????

He told me it was so important, that I should try to get the money somehow !!!!!!!

I was not happy with that response to my email pointing out the costs I would incur, and at that point, cancelled the newsletter subscription. And never regretted it!!!!

I was horrified to listen to the interview and hear how those people died etc, due to his overweening opinion of himself, coupled with a total lack of consideration for those who are weaker physically than himself.

I am sure that folk were NOT told all that ws to happen and that once in the sweat lodge, leaving was not an option until the session was completed!

So glad he is to be dealt with by the courts system as he deserves whatever is coming to him for not taking care of the folk who entrusted themselves to him over that weekend.

If the courts don't deal with him harshly, then he had better start thinking about KARMA and a few other things!

I haven't heard anything about this matter for some time. Is there a site I can go to to get more up-to-date info regarding James Ray and charges laid against him?

My brain functions extremely well, despite getting older, and

I used to get newsletters from James Ray, but I got fed up with him pushing things that were of no interest to me whatsoever.

He was quite 'snaky' with me at one point when I told him that for me to travel from NZ to his special weekend events etc, was absolutely prohibitive in price!

Why would I want to pay thousands of dollars for a weekend, including about $5,000 for the airfares and transport to the event site?????

He told me it was so important, that I should try to get the money somehow !!!!!!!

I was not happy with that response to my email pointing out the costs I would incur, and at that point, cancelled the newsletter subscription. And never regretted it!!!!

I was horrified to listen to the interview and hear how those people died etc, due to his overweening opinion of himself, coupled with a total lack of consideration for those who are weaker physically than himself.

I am sure that folk were NOT told all that ws to happen and that once in the sweat lodge, leaving was not an option until the session was completed!

So glad he is to be dealt with by the courts system as he deserves whatever is coming to him for not taking care of the folk who entrusted themselves to him over that weekend.

If the courts don't deal with him harshly, then he had better start thinking about KARMA and a few other things!

I haven't heard anything about this matter for some time. Is there a site I can go to to get more up-to-date info regarding James Ray and charges laid against him?

My brain functions extremely well, despite getting older, and

Lovely content! I also believe Dave Lakhani over delivered on this one. Thanks!

[...] How to Protect Yourself from Coercive Groups and Leaders [...]

Excellent response!

“I think I see the problem here…you wrote ” what matters if if they seek the truth using the methods we know lead to real answers.” ‘Real’ would be answers that can be proven via the scientific method and then peer reviewed, etc? Trouble is, science does not concern itself with questions of a spiritual or existential nature. Science doesn’t care about such things- and certainly cannot quantify them. This is the realm of the spiritualists, artists and philosophers- the Intuitives, if you will.”

I like the way you think…um…intuit. Faith is validated once it is proven correct. But before it is proven correct, it seems to be baseless to those who only believe that what is proven through vigorous testing is valid. It is circular logic that leaves faith, intuition and spirituality out in the cold.

This is
the great blog, I’m reading them for a while, thanks for the new posts!
 

youre all assholes

true dat